We've been pretty hard on Edna up to this point. Consider, if you will, her cultural setting and the options available to her. Are some of her choices understandable? What are her motivations? Did the book need to end the way it did? Was this Edna's intended purpose or an accident?
Post a thoughtful reply to this prompt and a thoughtful reply to another student.
In my personal opinion, I don't believe that Edna deserves much compassion or reconsideration of her character. From beginning to end, Edna revealed a selfish heart that was only concerned with the sinful lusts of the flesh. In chapter 16 Chopin writes, she would never "sacrifice herself for her children." As the novel concludes and Edna considers taking her life, her heart believes that if she were to resume her marriage and motherly duties, she would be sacrificing the 'self' that she had worked so hard to birth.
ReplyDeleteHer personal settings and the options available to her gave her no right to seek life and love elsewhere. Our actions in life should never be solely based upon our 'circumstances' or our 'emotions'. I believe that Edna's motivations derive for a lustful and deceitful heart. She seeks self pleasure before the needs of her family. Even though Leonce was not a husband that resembled leadership in their family, Edna's responsibility as a wife should have been to build up her husband in wisdom (Proverbs 14:1).
The novel's ending is provocative because Chopin does not indicate outright that Edna dies. Her story concludes with descriptions of a childhood scene (referring to Edna as a child and as a bird). As Chopin states, Edna's intentions to take her life where purposeful. Personally, I think the novel ended in a fair and outright manner. Although I would have liked to see Edna turn from her sinful path, return to her family, and learn what it is to be content, this ending reveals the possible result of a self-centered and lustful heart- death.
Luke 6:45: "A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of."
Proverbs 4:23: "Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it."
Matthew 12:34: " For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of."
Matthew 15:18: "But the things that come out of a person's mouth come from the heart, and these defile them."
In conclusion, Edna's character spoke for itself. Her continual walk in sin brought upon her the consequences of a defiled heart.
Very true, well spoken. I love the scriptures you use :). There is sadly so much in Edna's character that is completely consumed by her "awakening" and that spoke of how deeply imbedded she had become in her sin.
DeleteI actually have to respectfully disagree with you about the ending, I don't think it was meant to be an act of karma, the views of the author would suggest that the ending was meant to show that Edna couldn't live a life of freedom in her current time. I agree that some of her behavior was shortsighted and selfish, but I would also have to disagree that she should "learn to be content" my advice to Edna would be more along the lines of, find yourself a happy new life but still consider your family. Anyway, just my two cents.
DeleteI think that Edna was "living for the moment" and not considering the consequences of her actions, and what future she saw with this, other than some type of freedom from society. Some choices are understandable, like her first swim, or her moving into the pigeon house. Those show that she just needs some time alone to contemplate her existence, and see the world through a different lens. But committing adultery and rejecting the responsibility of her children is not the result of clear thinking and contemplation, but of rashness and selfishness. I would say that Edna does not realize that she will be forever bound by society, but I think that she does, the primary example being her fantasizing about being one of the last two people on Earth. This shows that she must have realized somehow that the only real way to escape society is to reject the entirety of civilization itself.
ReplyDeleteIf this book were to go differently, I think Edna's awakening should have gone along the lines of becoming bolder in speech with her husband. Instead of keeping him in the dark about her feelings, she should have tried to convince him that she needed attention from her husband. She could have tried to trust her new feelings with her husband. But I think this could not have been, as by that time, Robert had accidentally secured himself as the receiver of these awakened feelings.
I agree with a lot of your points. She definitely was not thinking of the consequences, but no one does when they are unhappy in their situation and try to change it. I think that how Edna handled it is exactly how a number of people would handle their situation. While I do with it ended better, with her talking to her husband and being their for her kids, I do understand that she became lost and couldn't find her way back.
DeleteHonestly, I do not think Edna has much in her character that is worth defending. Was the path she chose her only option? No way. Edna's "awakening" was an awakening to herself and in herself, her story was one of selfish desires and making herself her own little "god". The only thing I can say in her defense is that we would not all be humans if we were not all broken and wretchedly selfish. Edna is no worse than the rest of us because we all have the ability to be exactly like she was, and sadly, some people are. True, Edna's culture was a lot less liberal than ours; in America there is nothing wrong with leaving your husband and doing whatever you want - but - just because she faced more opposition in her society I do not think that in any way excused Edna's behavior. The conclusion she came to on the beach was exactly correct; Robert would never satisfy her. Nothing would ever fill her except for a short time. I believe that the only way I or her could ever find anything true in this world is in a person outside of myself and people around me (like family, friends, boyfriends, ect), and to me that person is Jesus Christ. When I serve Him in the way that I was created to is the only place I find the peace and fullness that I long for, a longing that he put in me for Himself. Edna had a similar longing and it was what drove her to death; she did have a much better option, an option that would have brought her real life apart form her own selfish, destructive desires, but it was not one she wanted to take hold of.
ReplyDeleteI really like what you have to say in your post. Edna did have a void and she thought that seeking pleasure and selfish desires would fill her void. Unfortunately, that did not work. In the end, sadly, Edna decides that she is hopeless and therefore kills herself. What she truly needed was Christ. Only with Him, could she have been able to fill her void and truly live.
DeleteEmma~
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading your post and completely agree with your point of view. I was encouraged by your spirit of humility in stating that Edna is similar to all of man kind in that we are all "broken and wretchedly selfish". The difference lies in the fact that Edna chooses to seek pleasure in her selfish desires rather than surrender her sin and choose an 'others-focused' lifestyle. Jesus Christ truly is the only One who will ever be able to fill our cup!
If you perceive Edna as an adult, then, her actions definitely do not sound understandable. But, I don't think of Edna like that. I think Edna is like a teenager, new to the frontier of independence, and subsequently, self-responsibility. If you'd like to relate her closer to her age, then think of it as a 21-year-old being able to legally drink alcohol.
ReplyDeleteIt simply gets out of hand.
I may not like nor approve her choices, but I can definitely understand them. Because I am a teenager. And everyone here is a teenager, save for Mrs. Breckenridge (but she was, and thus, also understands). And as a teenager, I'm sure you people here have once considered the attractiveness of simply acting rebellious. You know, breaking rules, talking back to your parents (or in Edna's case, her husband), etc. Asserting your independence. Viva the freedom of choice! The novelty of truly thinking for herself spurs Edna to "test it out," in other words.
Edna isn't really a bad person. Just a very, very inexperienced person when it comes to living.
Then, there's the ending. For me, suicide is never the answer of getting out of a problem. I cherish life. But, perhaps, in Edna's perspective, she's experiencing her first social crisis, and she doesn't even have her parents or close friends to really drag her out of the deep. Or even a hobby. Social suicide (no matter how unintentional it is) ---> actual suicide, apparently. The book didn't need to end the way it did, but it's a possibility. For her.
I'm pretty sure it's intentional, her death, that is. The amazing power of flight or fight instincts should have came up, then, if she really wanted to stay alive. And she wouldn't be accidentally drowning unless she had a cramp. I was eight when I ended up almost-drowning because my life jacket went bye-bye down the stream, and I managed to make it to the coast and out of the Riviera with only sheer, flailing arms and desperation.
But, then again, Edna isn't me.
What non-suicidal life would swim all the way into the lake until they got tired and not account for the trip back?
Unlike everyone else, I have actually changed my viewpoint of Edna. Originally I did see her actions as selfish and spoiled, but upon further reading and reflection, I sympathize with Edna. Edna is in a society where people are very constricted, especially in her financial bracket and with her gender. In her society, people of wealth were scrutinized and held to an impossible standard, poorer citizens could do what made them happy but wealthy individuals had to meet standards and regulations. On top of the culture economic situation, Edna also is a woman; in that society women were made to feel like a doll to be looked at and enjoyed rather than treated as a human. If she ever thought of herself or what would make her happy, she was looked down upon or seen as being “not well”. With those harsh constraints being ever present to her, it is no surprise that Edna wanted to make herself happy. She was not acting selfishly or without regard for her family. Edna simply was trying to better herself. I feel that if she had found what made her happy, she would have been able to be the mother her children needed to be. Unfortunately with the situations in the book, Edna was not able to find herself and the woman she was supposed to be so the book had to end tragically. Edna’s happiness and contentment was not found and therefore she could not find an escape and chose the only one that she could wrap her mind around. I do not think originally the end was intended, but once she was past fear, it definitely was not an accident.
ReplyDeleteThis was very interesting to read. You made some points that I never thought about before. I like that you brought up how at this time women were treated more like a doll than an actual human being, which made Edna feel unhappy. This is very important because it could be a big reason why Edna felt unhappy.
DeleteI enjoyed reading this because it is different than the other points made and very similar to my perspective. I too, sympathize with Edna and her struggle and do not perceive her as selfish and spoiled. I had not considered that she would maybe have been able to be a better mother if she had found what made her happy. This is an interesting point, and I do agree with it.
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ReplyDeleteI feel that Edna was not selfish but unhappy. In her time period and society,women were treated different then they are treated today. I think Edna had a lot of pressure living up to herself and other people's standards. Women, at this time, were not treated as equal and they had lots of work to do to live up to. Edna must have been feeling a little scared and helpless in her situation. Maybe she felt out of place when she saw her friends acting as, what the society saw as, normal. Edna didn't like her life and I think the ending of this story was intended and not an accident by Edna. I think she was trying to escape her troubles and problems that got to her. Her choices are somewhat understandable because if she was really feeling unhappy and alone, I guess her solution was one route to take- but I think this decision was a little drastic and she could have done something else that was not life threatening.
ReplyDeleteI can see where you get that and it is a very good explanation. But if she saw her friends like that and saw that they were happy living like that shouldn't she have tried to live like them and try to be happy? She didn't necessarily have to conform to everything that was believed in at that time but she could have been a little more receptive of the fact that she was not the only person she had to take care of she had a husband and brought children into the world. If she could not achieve happiness shouldn't she at least thought of her children's happiness?
DeleteI agree with you, I think Edna had a lot of people to please and it only made sense that she learn to love herself first. Obviously, she didn't learn to love herself, but her realizations were incredibly important and if she had lived past the day she died, I'm pretty positive she would've found a way to be happy.
DeleteEdna was a very confused person. I also don't think she was very mature. If she were mature she would know how to deal with her situation and realize where her duties fell. If she were mature she would be able to admit that yes she needed a small break to clear her mind and get her priorities straight. With the time period being what it was she would understand that her priorities were taking care of her family. Leaving her husband would be one thing but also leaving her children can be a total different level. In leaving them she is saying that she is not able to care for them. I think the ending could have been different if in Edna's awakening she realized how immature she was acting and got her things together.
ReplyDeleteI agree. If I had to use a relative metaphor here, it was like she just learned how to swim, and didn't know which direction to go. Perhaps Edna could have stopped herself from dying if she had another "Awakening" of a different sort. Rather than an Awakening to independence, she could've had an Awakening to responsibility.
DeleteI too agree with your response Angelica. Things would have been different if Edna had realized on time that her actions not only ended up hurting her but, hurting her children. Her children were innocent, and they had to grow up knowing that the woman who gave them birth abandoned them because, she wasn't ready to take responsibility over her own family. If Edna had matured on time, her ending would have been less dramatic. I honestly believe that he leaving and trying to be independent lead her to more suffering than her staying to raise her family.
DeleteI believe there are certain admirable qualities in Edna. She realized she wasn't happy, and she changed her life. That's an extremely hard feat. Edna has courage, she had courage to defy the sexism and oppression that was preeminent in society at the time. How many people can say that? That they realized they were unhappy and decided to make a change? How many people can say that they defied the oppression of their times?
ReplyDeleteEdna acts very childish in some of the story, she begins to live a very desire based life, but she was just "awakening" from living a half life, devoid of any passion or happiness. So it's understandable that since she was experiencing a new-found passion for life that she would act overly adventurous and rash at times, because she had never experienced anything like this before. Edna is very selfish at times, but as someone who had never lived for herself before, which is something that is healthy in moderation, it's understandable why she would be. Someone before me made a comparison to Edna as a teen, and I agree with that. Edna is rebellious, as most teens are. But most teens don't have the responsibility that someone as old as Edna have, so their rebellion doesn't have as many casualties, they don't have to worry about hurting their kids. Edna never got that rebellion, or that freedom, so she acted out as an adult. She should have considered the responsibility she had, but it's understandable why she acted that way.
Edna’s adultery is well, shameful, because cheating is always shameful. if you’re in a relationship and are unhappy, in my opinion, leaving is the right thing to do. Leaving her husband would be fine, cheating on him is not. However, regarding her behavior with Alcee, if it wasn’t adultery, it wouldn’t bother me, whether you or I would personally do the same thing or not doesn’t matter, she's an adult and in my opinion should be able to do whatever she wants as long as she's not hurting anybody. Edna’s passions isn’t a flaw, but acting on them irresponsibly is.
To me, It's clear her death was suicide. Personally I believe it was done out of rebellion, as sort of a final act of defiance, It's no coincidence that rebirth is a huge theme in this book which comes through water, and so does her death. I think she realizes that she cannot be truly free as she lives in a society that prohibits it, she chooses to die, as to die in control and free. With what I know about Kate Chopin and her beliefs, I tend to lean towards this as what the author was trying to rather than that Edna deserved it or died as a result of being too free.
I think Edna's choices are understandable to an extent. She went about solving her problems the wrong way, but she solved them. She was in a relationship where she wasn't happy, she most likely had children even though she didn't want them, and she was raised in a society where women were told to shut up, look pretty, and have babies. These were most likely her motives for acting so "out of line" and I don't think there would've been a way to end the book that summed up Edna's feelings any better and I like the route it took. At the end of the day, the only person you should worry about making happy is yourself. Edna's relationships suffered because even though you all seem to think she was being selfish, she was only doing what she was doing to make herself happy, and isn't that the goal of life?
ReplyDeleteEdna is impulsive and some would say selfish. Some would say these are unforgivable character traits and denounce Edna as an immoral and immature person. While I do believe some of Edna's actions were silly, such a pining over and leaving her husband for a man who had not even written her, or drowning herself in an ocean, I do not think she had the wrong idea about life. I believe that it was right for her to pursue her own happiness over the happiness of others. It is obviously not admirable that she did not care for her children, however, one can argue to say that this is because she married the wrong man and was put into a lifestyle she did not truly desire. To you all of you are saying Edna was immature- what would you have done if you were leading a life tied to a man who did not want you, and surrounded by people who looked down on you for wanting something better for yourself. While it is true that she did have many good things, such as a wonderful house and an abundance of money, that is immeasurable to the joy Edna was searching for. I do have a problem with her ending her life. It seems to be a waste of effort and made all she put herself through to be useless. After enduring so much and making strides, she should have continued to perservere, whether she had to move to another city or country. I see Edna's suicide as a surrender, in a bad way.
ReplyDeleteEdna paints a picture that money does not buy happiness. Although she has plenty of money, she is not happy. Apparently, she is unhappy because she wants to be independent; but, there is more to it than that. Consider that Edna is alone: her husband is far away and her children are also. She feels empty. Alone in a big house, Edna looks to her friends and Robert for comfort, to a smaller house for comfort, and even to spending time with her children for comfort. This emptiness led her to feel that life is pointless. With her belief that life is pointless, it is no wonder that Edna killed herself. The book brings out a truth when it ends this way: nothing on earth can permanently satisfy the void that humans experience. Even if conveying this truth was not Edna's intended purpose, she did a fine job in showing it.
ReplyDeleteEdna's void could only be filled with a personal relationship with Christ. He is her answer.
Honestly, I wouldn't give any compassion of some sort on Edna because, her thought of being independent made her seem selfish. She didn't realize that being independent meant being alone and unaccompanied. In the beginning Edna played a role of an uncaring mother and wife. Edna seemed to be a very confusing and immature woman. The only thing that went through her thoughts was the fact of being free and taking control of her own life. After abandoning her home, Edna looks for her friends, and eventually finds Robert, whom she finds comfort in. After a while, Edna and Robert had broken apart and Edna felt that the little happiness she had left, disappeared. You were able to notice that Edna wasn't a person who settled herself down for something permanent. More than the pain of her breakup, Edna started to feel the loneliness, she felt empty inside and found no point in living. The only thing she loved the most besides Robert and her freedom was swimming. Even if the book didn't specially say Edna committed suicide, the way the book it written and with the details given there are many clues that lead us to think that it was intended purpose. If Edna was to be a more stable person both mentally and physically things would of probably ended different. I thought the ending was great! It made the story more dramatic, and far from what the audience expected.
ReplyDelete